WRAL Reports: NC at Energy Crossroads
July 11, 2021
ON July 10, 2021 WRAL posted Travis Fain’s interview with Kevin McLaughlin representing Duke Energy and Gudren Thompson representing the Environmental Defense Fund to discuss North Carolina House Bill 951 and energy policy in North Carolina.
LINKS
View the interview at this link:
On the Record: North Carolina at energy crossroads
Travis Fain • Web editor: Sydney Franklin • Jul 10, 2021
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Transcript:
CAPTION OR IS HERE, THANK YOU. >>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO ON THE RECORD. NORTH CAROLINA IS AT A CROSSROADS WHEN IT COMES TO ENERGY. WITH CLIMATE CHANGE TO BE ACCELERATING. WE ARE RIGHT NOW IN THIS STATE MAKING DECISIONS ON HOW WE GENERATE ELECTRICITY FOR 30 YEARS AND IS OBLIGATED. WE WILL DIG IN. HOW QUICKLY CAN WE REPLACE COAL FIRE AND ELECTRICITY PLANT WITH THE CONSOLER AND OTHER RENEWABLE ENERGIES FEEL THE VOID? HOW CAN NATURAL GAS AND COAL THAT CAUSES GREENHOUSE GASES, HOW MUCH OF THAT COULD BE NUCLEAR? WE ARE JOINED BY KEVIN McGLOCKLIN, VICE PRESIDENT OF ELEMENTAL AFFAIRS AWAY THE BIGGEST ENERGY PRODUCER IN THE STATE WHERE THE BIGGEST IN THE WORLD. WE ALSO HAVE MR. TUBBS AND WITH THE LAW CENTER, KNOWLEDGEABLE NOT ONLY ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT OF ENERGY PRODUCTION, BUT THE WAY WE REGULATED IN NORTH CAROLINA. WE ALSO HEAR AS WE MOVE THROUGH THIS. THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING US. KEVIN I WILL START WITH YOU. YOUR COMPANY HAS BEEN ACCUSED OF NOT MOVING QUICKLY ENOUGH AND YIELD TO ADMISSION. YOUR CALL BUT WANT TO RELY HEAVILY ON NATURAL GAS TO DO SO. I WANT TO PLAY A CLIP FROM A CLIMATE SCIENTIST FROM DUKE UNIVERSITY WHO ARGUES THAT IS A BAD IDEA. >> WE ARE SAYING CONSEQUENCES OF CLIMATE CHANGE COME ABOUT MUCH MORE RAPIDLY THAN WE THOUGHT. MORE HEAT WAVES, MORE FIRES, MORE INTENSE HURRICANES WE NEED TO PUT ON THE BRAKES STRAIGHTAWAY. WE DO NOT HAVE TIME FOR SOME INTERMEDIATE START. LIKE BETWEEN CALL AND ZERO CARBON LIKE NATURAL GAS. IT LEAKS METHANE UPSTREAM. IT PRODUCES CO2 AND BURNS. I TOTALLY AGREE WITH THE ARGUMENT THAT IT IS BETTER THAN COAL. IT’S NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO MITIGATE CLIMATE CHANGE. >>, SO, KEVIN, IF A GAS-FIRED PLANT LAST WATCH? 30 YEARS OR SO, WHY DO YOU WANT TO BUILD THEM IN 2024 AND 2026? >> YOU ARE REFERENCING THE ENERGY LEGISLATION THAT APPEARED A FEW WEEKS AGO. IT CAME OUT OF A HOUSE LED PROCESS WITH UTILITIES, LARGE MANUFACTURING REPRESENTATIVES, RETAIL MERCHANTS, REPRESENTATIVES, CLEAN ENERGY BUSINESS LEADERS AND ALSO SO, NORTH CAROLINA SUSTAINABLE ENERGY ASSOCIATION. AND REPRESENTS MANY LEADING ENVIRONMENTAL AGENCIES AND ADVOCATES. OUT OF THE PROCESS CAME LEGISLATION. ALMOST A 5 TO 1 RATIO. FIVE BEING RENEWABLES, ONE THING A LIMITED AMOUNT OF NATURAL GAS. A PLAN TO CLOSE FIVE CHARCOALER FACILITIES OVER THE NEXT 10 YEARS IN NORTH CAROLINA. WE RECOGNIZE THERE IS WHAT IS RECOGNIZED. AN OPPORTUNITY TO BRING ENERGY INTO THE SYSTEM WITHOUT SACRIFICING RELIABILITY AND ALSO WITHOUT LOSING OUR COMPETITIVE EDGE MAC WITH AFFORDABLE ELECTRICITY PRICES IN THE STATE. NATURAL GAS SPECIFICALLY. MANY RAISED CONCERNS. WE THINK IT’S IMPORTANT WE THINK ABOUT NEW TECHNOLOGIES. AND RELATED TO NATURAL GAS FACILITIES, THOSE FACILITIES COULD BE EQUIPPED TO BURN BOTH NATURAL GAS, BUT ALSO HYDROGEN. NOW, THAT WOULD BE CARBON FREE WHEN HYDROGEN IS BURNED. WE ARE NOT THERE QUITE YET. >> WE CAN TAKE STEPS TODAY TO PREPARE FOR THE FUTURE, TO MAKE SURE ANY NATURAL GAS FACILITIES CREATED IN THE NEXT DECADE INCLUDE THE DUAL FUEL OPTION. >> GET READY LEGISLATION YOU TALKED ABOUT IS HOUSE BILL 951. WE WILL HIDDEN THAT A FEW TIMES AND WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THE 521 RATIO THAT KEVIN MENTIONED THERE? ALSO, IS IT FEASIBLE TO MOVE FROM NATURAL GAS TO HYDROGEN? THAT SORT OF THING, WOULD IT KEEP US FROM HAVING STRANDED ASSETS WE TALK ABOUT LIKE A GAS PLAN AND WE DON’T NEED IT AS LONG AS WE THOUGHT WE MIGHT ASK BUT I GUESS A COUPLE THINGS I WILL SAY ABOUT THAT. I THINK THE 51 RATIO IS PROBABLY NOT A GOOD POINT HERE. WE HEARD FROM A DOCTOR AT DUKE UNIVERSITY A MINUTE AGO. WE NEED TO CUT CARBON POLLUTION AND GREENHOUSE GAS POLLUTION VERY QUICKLY IN ORDER TO AVOID THE WORST EFFECTS OF CLIMATE CHANGE. THAT MEANS CUTTING CARBONS 70% TO 2005 LEVELS TO 2030. THAT NEEDS TO BE THE GUIDING STAR. WE HAVE TO TRANSITION AWAY FROM FOSSIL FUEL LIKE COAL AND GAS AND NOT HAVE INDEPENDENCE ON GAS LONGER. THERE’S AN OPPORTUNITY COST HERE TOO. KEVIN MENTIONED GREEN HYDROGEN. THAT TECHNOLOGY IS NOT COMMERCIALIZED YET. SO, YOUR BETTING ON SOMETHING THAT MAY OR MAY NOT COME INTO PLAY WHERE AS RIGHT NOW, THERE ACTUALLY IS TECHNOLOGY THAT CAN PROVIDE SOME OF THE SAME FUNCTIONS AS GAS. LIKE ENERGY STORAGE OR, DEMAND RESPONSE WHERE YOU CAN SHIFT DEMAND FROM WINTER MORNING TO OTHER TIMES THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY WHERE IF YOU ARE INVESTING IN GAS PLANS, YOU DO NOT HAVE THOSE DOLLARS TO SPEND ON SOMETHING ELSE. SO, I THINK THE IDEA THAT GAS IS A BRIDGE FUEL TO A CLEAN ENERGY FUTURE IS AN OUTDATED NOTION FROM THE EARLY 2000S. WE JUST KNOW A LOT MORE NOW ABOUT THE SCIENCE. YOU CANNOT JUST LOOK AT THE SMOKESTACK. YOU NEED TO LOOK AT AS THE DOCTOR MENTIONED, WORK WITH THE UPSTREAM METHANE LAKES FROM THE WELL TO THE PIPELINE. THERE IS A SAYING THAT I REALLY LIKE WHICH IS THE STONE AGE HEADSTONES. THE PLANT HAD SMART ENGINEERS. >> I WAS EXAMINING SOME OF THEM. I HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THEIR ABILITY TO HELP US INNOVATE OUR WAY INTO A CLEANER FUTURE THAT MIGHT INVOLVE, YOU KNOW,, WE ARE GOING TO NEED TO CONTINUE LEARNING. THAT’S PROBABLY TRUE. >> NOT BUILDING NEW PLANTS NOW THAT ARE GOING TO BE WHITE ELEPHANTS IN A COUPLE DECADES. >> KEVIN, PART OF THE BILL WE TALKED ABOUT I BELIEVE MOVES ROXBORO, WHERE THE LARGEST PLANT I BELIEVE IN THE COUNTRY, FROM COAL TO NATURAL GAS BUT THAT SEEMS A REAL RELIANCE ON NATURAL GAS THERE. DO WE REALLY NEED THAT BRIDGE? SOME OF THE THINGS GOODWIN WAS TALKING ABOUT IS IT TECHNOLOGY CLOSE ENOUGH TO READY TO SKIP THE BRIDGE? >> I DON’T WANT TO QUIBBLE WITH YOU. >> YOU ARE RIGHT. ROXBORO IS ONE OF THE FIVE COAL FACILITIES THAT WOULD BE TRANSITIONED OR RETIRED AS A RESULT OF THIS LEGISLATION. >>, THERE IS NOT A MANDATE FOR NATURAL GAS. AT THAT FACILITY. IN FACT, IT WAS INTENTIONAL BY SOME OF THE NEGOTIATORS TO THINK ABOUT THE RETIREMENT DAY OF THE FACILITY OUT FURTHER ENOUGH SO TECHNOLOGY COULD BE AVAILABLE. TO TRANSITION WITHOUT NATURAL GAS IF NEEDED. OR, IF THE DECISION IS MADE, FOR BOTH RELIABILITY CONCERNS, ALSO TO POSITION MORE QUICKLY FROM COAL, AT LEAST NATURAL GAS IS AN OPTION FOR THE LEGISLATION AT THAT FACILITY. SPA COMEDY NATURAL GAS UNITS ARE WE TALKING ABOUT? ONE OF YOUR CRITICS SAYS IT IS 50 PLANNED FOR THE BILL. AND THE IRP. THE 15 YEAR PLAN DUKE ENERGY HAS . VISIT 50 OVER THE NEXT COUPLE DECADES? >> I MADE NEED TO CONSULT SOME OF MY SMART ENGINEERS. GOODWIN MENTIONED ON THAT, I CAN’T SPEAK TO THE LEGISLATION. THE LEGISLATION, UNDER THE LEGISLATION DIRECTS AGAIN, FIVE COAL FACILITIES, THE REPLACEMENT OF ONE LIMITED NATURAL GAS FACILITY AT MARSHALL. ACTUALLY A COAL FACILITY EXPECTED TO RETIRE IN 2035. >>, BECAUSE OF LEGISLATION, AND RETIRES ALMOST A DECADE EARLIER. WITHOUT ADDITIONAL COAL ASH AT THE FACILITY. ROXBORO IS LEFT WITH AVAILABLE TECHNOLOGY WHEN IT’S TIME TO MAKE THOSE DECISIONS BASED ON REVIEW BY THE UTILITY COMMISSION. >> WE ARE GOING TO TAKE THE FIRST BREAK. WHEN WE COME BACK, WE WILL TALK MORE ABOUT ENERGY REGULATION IN TOUCHED ON. >>> WELCOME BACK. WE HAVE KEVIN McGLOCKLIN FROM DUKE INJURY AND A ATTORNEY SPECIALIZING IN ENERGY RECORDATION. GAS IS NEEDED BUT ONE OF THE KEY THINGS IN NORTH CAROLINA WITH ENERGY INFRASTRUCTURE IS STATE REGULARS ALLOW DUKE ENERGY A 7% RETURN ON EQUITY. I THINK IT’S FAIR TO CALL THAT PROFIT ON CAPITAL COST BUT IF YOU BUILD A EXPENSIVE NATURAL GAS PLANT THERE’S A BUILT IN RETURN FOR THE . HOW IMPORTANT IS THAT WITH WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE? ARE WE INCENTIVIZING THE RIGHT THINGS? >> I THINK THAT THE RETURN ON EQUITY MIGHT BE A LITTLE HIGHER THAN 7%. I THINK IT’S SOMEWHERE AROUND NINE OR 10 AND CHANGE. >>, WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IS, A RETURN ON INVESTMENT IN POWER PLANTS AND OTHER ASSETS. THAT IS HOW THE UTILITY MAKES MONEY. IT’S NOT A VALUE JUDGMENT. YOU KNOW, DUKE ENERGY, UTILITIES NEED, THEY ARE UTILITIES THAT NEED TO CREATE VALUE FOR SHAREHOLDERS AND THAT IS HOW THEY DO IT. THEY BUILD THINGS AND THEY OWN THINGS AND EARN A RETURN IN THE. >>, THE BUSINESS MODEL REALLY NEEDS TO CHANGE. THE UTILITY IS NOT JUST REWARDED FOR SPENDING MONEY ON LARGE CAPITAL PROJECT. BUT, INSTEAD, IT’S REWARDED FOR PERFORMANCE METRICS THAT PROMOTE STATE POLICIES THAT DO THINGS LIKE ENCOURAGE ENERGY EFFICIENCY OR DEPLOYMENT OF RENEWABLES AND AFFORDABILITY. WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT BILL 951. THERE ARE PROVISIONS IN THEY’RE HEADING IN THE DIRECTIONS OF UTILITIES THAT THIS MODEL FORMED. THAT IS POSITIVE. BUT, THE PROBLEM IS, IN THIS LEGISLATION, THAT IS INTRODUCED RECENTLY, THERE IS TOO MUCH POTENTIAL FOR THE UTILITY TO OVERTURN. WITHOUT REALLY ANY RECOURSE FOR THE UTILITY COMMISSION OR THE CONSUMER ADVOCATE AGENCY TO ENSURE THAT THE UTILITY COMES IN AND HAS EVERYTHING TRUE UP SO THEY ARE NOT EARNING TOO MUCH. THAT IS WHAT REALLY BIG CONCERN ABOUT HOUSE BILL 951. THEN THERE ARE A COUPLE OF IT. LET’S TALK ABOUT, IF THERE IS A CHANCE, DURING THE SHOW TODAY. >> YES, WE WILL GET DEEPER INTO. KEVIN, FEEL FREE TO DISAGREE WITH SOME OF WHAT YOU BROUGHT UP THERE. BUT THERE IS A LOT OF PRIVATE PRESSURE ON DUKE ENERGY NOW, RIGHT? YOU HAVE ANOTHER COMPANY NEXT IN POSITION TO TAKE OVER, A HEDGE FUND WANTS TO BREAK THE COMPANY UP, HERE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT DECADES OF POLICY. IS A PRESSURE ON MANAGEMENT TO DO EVERY BIT OF VALUE THEY CAN FOR SHAREHOLDERS. HOW DO YOU BALANCE THAT? >> YOU BALANCE IT BY KEEPING THE MAIN PRIORITY THE MAIN PARTY. FOR DUKE ENERGY AND THE DUKE ENERGY LEADERS, THE MAIN PRIORITY IS PROVIDING AFFORDABLE, RELIABLE AND CLEANER ENERGY FOR CUSTOMERS. THAT IS WHAT MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES AND LEADERSHIP THINK ABOUT EVERY DAY. WHEN WE WITNESS IT JUST THIS PAST WEEK IN RECOVERING FROM TROPICAL STORM ELSA. MY COLLEAGUES, THE LINE WORKERS AND THE CONTROL OPERATORS WHO ARE MAKING SURE OUR POWERS IN. WITH DECADES WERE IN THE STUDY. THAT IS HOW WE FOCUS ON WHAT THE PRIORITIES ARE. WE ALSO ARE LISTENING TO OUR CUSTOMERS. THE CURRENT CUSTOMERS AND THOSE CUSTOMERS WHO WE ARE ACTIVELY RECRUITING TO THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT EFFORTS TO COVER NORTH CAROLINA. THOSE COMPANIES, APPLE MOST RECENTLY, THEY WANT TO SEE CLEANER ENERGY ON THE SYSTEM. SO, WE LET THIS OPPORTUNITY THAT WE HAVE RIGHT IN FRONT OF US TODAY. PERHAPS YOU SAY WE ARE AT A CROSSROADS. I WOULD SAY WE ARE AT THIS VERY UNIQUE OPPORTUNITY HERE IN 2021. WHERE WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO SET A COURSE FORWARD OVER THE NEXT DECADE TO BRING CLEANER ENERGY ONTO OUR SYSTEM WITHOUT SACRIFICING RELIABILITY AND AFFORDABLE ENERGY PRICES. NOW, I APPRECIATE COMMENTS ABOUT THE PERFORMANCE-BASED RATES. THERE ARE SOME FANTASTIC POLICIES THAT CAME OUT OF GOVERNOR COOPER’S CLEAN ENERGY PLAN AND CLEAN ENERGY TASK FORCE. DEALING WITH PERFORMANCE-BASED RATES. THIS IS SOMETHING, THREE THINGS. A MULTI YEAR RATE PLAN. PERFORMANCE INCENTIVE MEASURES TO HOLD THE UTILITY . AND, DECOUPLED . A WORD I DID NOT KNOW UNTIL I CAME TO DO. DECOUPLING IS A GREAT LINK BETWEEN THE INCENTIVES FOR THE ELECTRIC COMPANY TO SELL YOU MORE ELECTRICITY. THOSE THREE THINGS TOGETHER ARE A GREAT STEP FORWARD FOR DUKE ENERGY. GREAT SUPPORT FOR CUSTOMERS. WE ARE VERY PLEASED LEGISLATIVE LEADERS HAVE DECIDED TO KEEP PROVISIONS IN THE LEGISLATION. AGAIN, TALKING ABOUT INCENTIVES. THE REASON THAT THERE IS A CHANGE NEEDED IN THE REGULATORY PROCESS IS, YOU ARE RIGHT. THE OLD MODEL, THE OLD MODEL WAS THE UTILITY WAS CONSENTED TO HAVE LARGE CENTRAL COAL PLANTS FOR INSTANCE. THAT IS THAT THE FUTURE. THE FUTURE? GRID INVESTMENT. THE FUTURE, CONNECTING RENEWABLE ENERGY RESOURCES TO THE GRID. GRID HARDENING AND STRENGTHENING. TECHNOLOGY TO PROTECT INFRASTRUCTURE. FROM STORMS AND ISSUES. THAT IS THE FUTURE. WHAT IS IN THE BILL IS A REGULATORY STRUCTURE TO THE NEEDS OF NORTH CAROLINIANS FOR THE FUTURE. >> VERY QUICK. THE REFORM IN THE BILL, A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY IT HELPS DUKE ENERGY OVERTURN, EARN TOO MUCH MONEY TOO QUICKLY OVER THE NEXT COMING YEARS, WHAT YOU SAY WITH THAT? BUT I AGREE WITH IT. THERE’S AN ASYMMETRICAL NATURE OF THE POTENTIAL FOR OVERTURNING IN THE BILL. DID COULD OVERTURN BY QUITE A BIT DIFFERENT NUMBERS AROUND, I AM NOT QUITE SURE WHAT THE RIGHT NUMBER IS. >> THE POTENTIAL FOR EARNING THEIR, THE PROBLEM IS, THE UTILITY COMMISSION ANYBODY ELSE, REGULATORS, IF THEY CATCH WIND OF THAT AND SAY, GOSH, WE BETTER GET IN THERE AND MAKE SURE THEY ARE NOT PAYING TOO MUCH. CAN I COMMENT A LITTLE BIT, SINCE KEVIN MENTIONED THE TASK FORCE, CAN I COMMENT ON THE PROCESS OF NEGOTIATING THE LEGISLATION? BUT I THINK I WILL HAVE TO WAIT FOR THE THIRD. WE WILL COME BACK AND WE WILL GET FURTHER INTO THIS BILL. WE WILL ALSO TALK ABOUT WHAT THE SOLAR INDUSTRY THINKS ABOUT NORTH CAROLINA. WELCOME BACK. WE’RE TALKING ENERGY POLICY AND HOUSE BILL 591 951 IN NORTH CAROLINE IT. I WANT TO GIVE HER THE OPPORTUNITY TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT PROCESS . A NOT UNUSUAL AT THE STATE HOUSE. AS THIS WAS DEVELOPED THE BILL IS DEVELOPING IF NOT DONE PUBLICLY FOR THE MOST PART, A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WANT TO BE A PART OF IT WERE CUT OUT. SOCKETS RIGHT. KEVIN MENTIONED THE TASK FORCE COMING OUT OF GOVERNOR COOPER’S CLEAN ENERGY PLAN. THE TASK FORCE WAS REALLY THE FIRST GROUP OF STAKEHOLDERS. PART OF DUKE ENERGY, MUNICIPALITIES. REALLY ANYBODY WITH INTEREST IN THE NORTH CAROLINA ENERGY FUTURE WAS INVOLVED. SOME OF THE UTILITY COMMISSION STAFF. THE LEGISLATIVE STAFF AND LEGISLATORS AS WELL. THEY MET FEBRUARY 3 DECEMBER OF LAST YEAR. MANY, MANY MEETINGS. ZOOM LIKE SO MANY OF US ARE DOING A. BUT, IT WAS A REALLY ROBUST PROCESS . A IT WAS NOT EASY. BUT WE MADE A LOT OF PROGRESS ON A LOT OF THESE ISSUES. IT’S REALLY A SHAME THAT THE PROCESS WAS KIND OF SHUNTED OFF BY LEADERSHIP INTO A CLOSED- DOOR, SECRET NEGOTIATION PROCESS IN WHICH SOME STAKEHOLDERS WERE NOT ALLOWED TO TALK ABOUT WHAT WAS ON THE TABLE. THE PROCESS LEADS TO A BAD OUTCOME. THAT IS WHY WE ARE HERE NOW WITH SO MANY FOLKS OPPOSING THE BILL. IT HAS SOME POSITIVE THINGS IT. VERY POSITIVE THINGS FOR SOLAR ENERGY. CERTAINLY CLOSING COAL PLANTS IS POSITIVE. ALSO, THERE IS A THEME THAT RUNS THROUGHOUT THE LEGISLATION THAT WOULD TIE THE UTILITY COMMISSION HANDS AND TAKE AWAY THEIR AUTHORITY. THE COMMISSIONERS ARE VERY WELL QUALIFIED FOLKS. THEY HAVE BEEN VETTED BY THE LEGISLATURE. LET THEM DO THEIR JOB, TO REGULATE IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST. >> WE HAVE BEEN BANGING ON THE BILL A LITTLE BIT. YOU MEASURE THE SOLAR INDUSTRY. I WANT TO KNOW THE INDUSTRY SUPPORTS AND IN PARTICULAR TIER CLIP FROM THE CHAIRMAN OF THE CAROLINA CLEAN ENERGY BUSINESS ASSOCIATION. HE BASICALLY SAYS, PASSING NOTHING IS NOT AN OPTION FOR THE INDUSTRY. THEY WANT TO EXTEND ASSISTANT THE STATE HAS FOR SOLAR CONSTRUCTION. >> REALLY WE ARE AT A SPOT WHERE WE GO BACK TO THE REGULATORY ENVIRONMENT WHERE DEVELOPMENT IS COMING TO A STOP IN NORTH CAROLINA AND ABSENCE OF NEW POLICY DRIVERS, THE REPAIRS DON’T GET THE BENEFIT OF THE CLEAN ENERGY AND THE COST-SAVING THE STATE COULD. >> ALL RIGHT, WE USED TO BELIEVE IT NUMBER TWO I BELIEVE IN SOLAR IN THE COUNTRY. WE ARE STARTING TO SLIP . WHY ARE WE SLIPPING? WHAT WE NEED TO RE-ACCELERATE THAT? >> I DO NOT KNOW IF WE HAVE BEEN SLIPPING AS MUCH AS OTHER STATES HAVE HIT THE PADDLE AND ADVANCED MUCH MORE QUICKLY THAN WE HAVE OVER THE PAST SEVERAL YEARS. THAT’S A PART OF THE BILL WE VERY MUCH SUPPORT. VERY ALIGNED. WITH THE CLEAN ENERGY BUSINESS IN NORTH CAROLINA WITH A MANDATE FOR ADDITIONAL RENEWABLES TO BE ADDED TO THE SYSTEM. AS I SAID EARLIER. IT’S WHAT CUSTOMERS WANT. RENEWABLES ARE AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE MIX FOR FUTURE ENERGY GENERATIONS. TO HELP ADDRESS HOME REDUCTION GOALS. ALSO, TO SUPPORT JOBS IN NORTH CAROLINA. SO, IT’S AN AREA OF ALIGNMENT AMONGST MANY OF THE NEGOTIATORS WHO WORK IN THE LEGISLATION. >> I WANT TO TALK ABOUT WHAT THE BILL DOES. THERE IS NO MENTION OF CLIMATE CHANGE. NO CONTEMPLATION OF MORE REPETITIVE ENERGY REGIMES. SOUTH CAROLINA IS STUDYING ONE- HOUR PROVIDERS CAN ESSENTIALLY IT ON ENERGY PRICES. I KNOW THAT WOULD BE A MAJOR SHIFT, BUT WHY NOT CONSIDER IT HERE? >> I THINK CERTAINLY IT WAS PART OF THE CONVERSATION. THAT FOLKS AT. MANY FOLKS WOULD SAY THE LEGISLATION DOES NOT GO FAR ENOUGH. FOR DIFFERENT POLICY ISSUES. SOME SAY IT GOES TOO FAR. THE ELECTRICITY SYSTEM WE HAVE IN NORTH CAROLINA, ONE THAT CONTINUES TO PROVIDE RELIABLE, AFFORDABLE AND NOW CLEANER ENERGY WITH THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO KEEP THE SYSTEM IN PLACE. AND TRAVIS I WOULD SAY, WHAT HAPPENED EARLIER THIS WINTER WE NEED TO LOOK. 150 TEXANS PERISHED. BECAUSE THERE, THE DEREGULATED ELECTRICITY SYSTEM FAILED. FOR SOME FOLKS, ELECTRICITY IS JUST A COMMODITY. BUT, FOR THOSE OF US, LIKE THE FOLKS I REPRESENTED WITH DUKE ENERGY. WE KNOW ELECTRICITY IS MUCH MORE THAN JUST A COMMODITY. IT’S AN ESSENTIAL SERVICE. WE ARE PROUD TO PROVIDE THAT FOR NORTH CAROLINIANS ACROSS THE STATE. >> SURE, I UNDERSTAND. COST IS A CONCERN. YOU ACKNOWLEDGE, YES KEVIN? THIS GIVES DUKE ENERGY AN AWFUL LOT OF WHAT IT WANTED FOR SEVERAL YEARS. >> THE I RECOGNIZE ABSOLUTELY. WE TALK ABOUT THE SUPPORT OF TRANSITION AWAY FROM CALL. ADDING CLEANER ENERGY. PROVIDING REFORM AND DOING IT IN AN AFFORDABLE WAY. ABSOLUTELY. I AM VERY SUPPORTIVE OF THOSE OBJECTIVES. AND A GOOD REFERENCE TO THE FACT THAT OTHER VOICES NEED TO BE HEARD. NOT HOW SHE PARAPHRASED IT. THAT IS WHAT WE ARE SEEING RIGHT NOW IN THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS. THE BILL EMERGED, THE OPPORTUNITY FOR FEEDBACK. I BELIEVE POLICYMAKERS ARE LISTENING. I KNOW DUKE ENERGY IS LISTEN. OUR GOAL IS TO END THE SESSION. THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION. WITH CONSENSUS, BIPARTISAN LEGISLATION. THAT ADVANCES NORTH CAROLINA FORWARD AND SIGNED AND SUPPORTED FULLY BY GOVERNOR COOPER. WE HAVE AN EXCELLENT OPPORTUNITY IN FRONT OF US THAT WE DON’T MISS THE OPPORTUNITY. >> VERY QUICKLY, DO YOU THINK IT IS POSSIBLE WHERE THE BILL IS NOT TO GET OVER THAT BENCH LINE? THE BILL NEEDS TO GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD. BUT, IF LEADERSHIP IS READY TO OPEN UP THE PROCESS TO OTHER VOICES, I THINK A LOT OF US ARE READY TO ROLL UP HER SLEEVES AND HAVE A CONVERSATION. AS IT STILL STANDS TODAY, THE BAD OUTWEIGHS THE GOOD. >> ALL RIGHT, WE WILL HAVE MORE COVERAGE ON THIS BILL. WRAL.COM, FOLLOW OUR THE SHOW. >>> I KNOW THIS COULD BE A DENSE TOPIC. THANK YOU FOR PAYING ATTENTION TO. THANK YOU FOR TUNING IN AND ALSO TO OUR GUEST. YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY ABOUT TONIGHT DISCUSSION YOU CAN FOLLOW US ON TWITTER. YOU CAN EMAIL US YOUR COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS AND CRITICISMS AT ONTHERECORD@WRAL.COM. YOU CAN ALWAYS WRITE A LETTER. PO BOX 12,000 HERE IN RALEIGH. THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.